There goes the neighborhood..
RUMOR has it … a Starbucks is moving into the Western Union on court/president.
Honestly, how depressing. There is a reason why I don’t live in the suburbs. Living in Brooklyn I can experience (and be a part of) a completely unique neighborhood, lifestyle, local flavor. But with every passing week this area of Brooklyn is becoming more and more like the “corporate chain store - zombified - every town” I was so happy to have escaped.
What are we to do? As a loyal resident my only option is to be diligent in placing my hard-earned cash in the hands of local, individually owned establishments and try to encourage like-minded people to do the same.
So, lets not buy coffee and spend time in Starbucks - instead go to D’amicos or the Fall Cafe.
Screw Dunkin Donuts - try the Donut house, or get some Pastry.
Baskin Robins - are you kidding? Gelato from the local pizzeria is always better.
Who is with me?
February 5th, 2006 at 11:53 pm
I certainly won’t be spending my cash at Starbucks (is it me or does their coffee always taste burnt!) or Dunkin Donuts or Baskin Robins. I wonder if the rumour about the OTB becoming a KFC. What’s next? What is this neighborhood missing? - maybe an Olive Garden or Appleby’s?
February 6th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
I am not pleased about the chain store invasion. I just have to wonder: are there town council meetings that we can attend, where we could possibly vote on these types of things? I think part of the problem is that the neighborhood is slightly transient, with a lot of renters, so with that in mind, there’s a bit of apathy when it comes to what types of stores come in. I really hope that KFC doesn’t go in where the OTB used to be. I had heard that a French restaurant was going in there, but I don’t know for sure. If residents were given a voice, and we knew when town meetings were being held, we could have voiced a preference that a different, sanitary and better grocery store come in to replace that nasty Key Food instead of CVS. My husband and I rent our place, because we’re priced out of buying anything decent, but we love the neighborhood for its charm and have called it home for over 5 years. With all these chains coming in, it’s making it feel suburban and not as different and special as it has been.
February 6th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
D’amico’s - hands down the best coffee in the city but also unquestionably the worst hours for any coffee shop…..ever. 10-5 Monday - Saturday? Are they willfully trying to exclude anyone who has a job from shopping there? It’s actually fairly surprising that Starbucks or some other coffee place hasn’t moved in sooner with only the Fall Cafe for competition. D’amico’s could make the decision not to frequent Starbucks simple if they’d just hire one more counter person and stay open until 10 or 11.
February 6th, 2006 at 5:00 pm
Once again, depressed by the news - the lack of large chains is one of the reasons I live in Carroll Gardens. I’m all for boycotting, but I agree with Melissa that it would be great to try to get some sort of larger neighborhood reaction to this (I’m still also hung up on the CVS thing). I know that there are CG neighborhood meetings that the Brooklyn Paper reports on, but not sure where or when. I’d be seriously interested in trying to find out if there is anything that could be done, although what that is at this moment, I couldn’t say.
February 6th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
I generally agree with the anti-gentrifcation sentiment, however, you can’t ignore the fact that these chains would not exist in our neighborhood if there was not a demand for them.
I was against the idea of the new Eckerds on Smith St, but the fact is, they provide the service, value, and variety that is sorely lacking from any of the “mom and pop” drug stores in the neighborhood.
Gentrification itself is not a bad thing; if it weren’t for the gentrification of Carroll Gardens over the last 5-10 years, the neighborhood would likely still be a ghetto that is unsafe to walk through at night.
Also, keep in mind that every Starbucks is an independently-run business. The proprieter (sp?) is essentially running his or her own small business, which happens to exclusively sell Starbucks products. Every business in Carroll Gardens makes it’s living selling corporate products, whether it be Coke or Budweiser or Absolut Vodka or Oscar Meyer.
Don’t be under the impression that boycotting the store will have any effect on Starbucks as a corporation, relative to how it will affect the small business-owner running it. Obviously Starbucks is a virtually unstoppable machine. And honestly, I would rather see a Starbucks than another OTB.
I don’t personally endorse Starbucks, simply for the fact that a $5 cup of coffee is ridiculous.
But the gentrification argument is not as black and white as people make it seem.
February 6th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
I agree with some of what Ben says, but is it truly that the growing neighborhood and influx of residents demands chains, or have the chains zeroed in the area as a growth opportunity? There is certainly a demand for service related stores, such as drugstores where you can receive a level of service and care, as well as grocery stores that are clean and sanitary and carry products that are within expiration dates and not spoiled, but I think that everyone is expressing reservations because of what happens to areas once they are taken over by chains. I recommend reading Fast Food Nation, because it talks about how chains come to be and why they seem to suddenly start appearing in areas where they didn’t exist before. I will say that I prefer the Eckerd over the ratted up empty lot that sat there for years, and yes, the area is much safer than it was just a few years ago. However, I strongly believe that once you get fast food chains in an area, the area starts to decline and safety becomes an issue again (depending on the hours that a fast food restaurant keeps, you can end up with loitering and drug dealing, etc). I am very interested in learning more about how decisions are made in our nieghborhood as well as learning if there’s a way to vote or provide alternative suggestions as to what comes in and what doesn’t. It seems like the neighborhood went through a wonderful period where it blossomed and now the chains are trying to exploit it by coming in and making money off of it, which is the great American dream, I guess. Personally, I liked living in a place where I wasn’t assualted by the usual pattern of CVS, KFC, Starbucks, fill in the blank. . .part of the charm has been walking around and discovering places, new and old, that are totally unique and individual. I get a little freaked out about the fact that I can walk into a Duane Reade or CVS or Eckerd and totally know where things are just because places like that are cookie cutter by design.
February 6th, 2006 at 8:29 pm
that is a great point regarding fast food restaurants.
it seems a lot of small independent businesses are being forced out by the skyrocketing rent, which only the large corporations can afford to pay.
i dont have the statistics to back this up, but i wonder if it’s an unavoidable cycle.
Like Harlem, which began as a more upscale neighborhood, deteriorated, and now has found a resurgence in recent years.
chcken or egg?
February 6th, 2006 at 9:05 pm
The Community Board 6 website lists meetings concerning the neighborhood.
http://www.brooklyncb6.org/
I doubt there are any meetings concerning storefronts changing hands but I I guess it could be a topic brought up at a general board meeting.
February 6th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Ben,
I agreed with a lot of what you said — I live in Kensington and wouldn’t mind my neighborhood getting a little gentrified.
But while Starbucks as a whole may consist of independantly owned franchises, to equate the effect they and other chains like it have on a neighborhood — including feel, development, residents, spirit — with that of a mom and pop store is to underestimate the positive and negative effects these places have. That Eckerd may be convenient, but it’s glaringly out of place. Same goes for all the banks, and now this Starbucks that’s popping up. The more these places pop up, the more the spirit of the neighborhood fades away. Believe me, I’m no knee-jerk liberal who’s anti-commercialism — I’m an MBA student. But these are urban planning truths. Cobble Hill/Carrol Gardens had a small window of time where it was the place to go to be around charming, private restaurants and bars. A lot of that is still there, but (perhaps inevitably) it’s going fast.
February 6th, 2006 at 9:32 pm
The problem is that now the neighborhood has gone through gentrification we are now encountering suburbanization. I’m sure an economists will tell us one naturally breeds the other. Especially with the box store trends in this country.
I don’ think that boycotting Starbucks will have an effect on the parent corporation, but perhaps a lack of local sales will convince the new owner and corporate backing money that this just isn’t the place for it. of course, I hate to have to stick it to the new starbucks owner who is probably just getting their own little business off the ground, but they could have started a non-Starbucks coffee shop and drawn a loyal local clientele.
Question, if Starbucks is started by an indep. owner - how can they afford more rent than a mom&pop? Does Starbucks have more pull? give bigger start-up loans? sign longer rental contracts? What makes it affordable for them? I have a feeling part of their equation banks on getting more business than the locals (something we can try to influence).
And ya know, isn’t it ultimately the owners of these buildings (neighborhood old timers) who are allowing these leases to be signed? I guess I can’t entirely blame them for cashing in now that the neighborhood can draw a higher rent, but it is a bit dissapointing that they haven’t felt more responsible to the area, and personally invested in the overall fabric of the hood.
Was it New Hampshire that declared the entire state a historic landmark and thus tried to block kmart (or walmart or target…) from opening? Maybe thats the way to go.
February 6th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
Well the franchise owner gets access to all Starbucks products — much easier than a privately owned entity. As far as financial backing, I’m not sure about that, but a good old fashioned Google search should get you an answer.
February 6th, 2006 at 10:16 pm
Starbucks is not a franchise, it is all owned by one management.
I’m from Brooklyn and I love the small independent shops but there’s nothing wrong with getting a Starbucks and I don’t understand trying to organize a boycott against it. And, there’s been a Dunkin Donuts on Kings Hwy (as well as many other places in BK) since the early 80’s, they’re not exactly just moving in now. If the neighborhood people prefer Starbucks, it will succeed. If they don’t, it won’t. I don’t get trying to organize against a business just because of what you prefer. Let the people of the neighborhood decide for themselves.
February 6th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
Karol, good point. Of course, demand will determine the success of the Starbucks.
Also, I am not trying to rally an official boycott - I’m merely expressing my own personal opinion to other folks who may feel (or not feel) the same way (isn’t that why blogs are so darn fun…) Remember, its not a boycott until someone prints fliers.
But the real problem is the trend…if the trend keeps up we wont have any choice BUT Starbucks. In the meantime, I will register my opinion and support at the local shops by giving them my cash.
February 7th, 2006 at 7:53 am
In the meantime, I will register my opinion and support at the local shops by giving them my cash.
Me too, but mostly because Starbucks coffee is always burnt.
February 7th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Maybe we can stage a little Tompkins Square action in Carroll Park. ..burning strollers and what not. I knew it was a matter of time and the OTB is too prime to pass up but I’m down with a boycott. New York is having its soul eaten and no one seems to care. If Scotto can’t stop the Dunkin’ what chance do I have except not to shop there. Court Street will look like a strip mall with pedestrians soon and we’ll all sit on the stoop and wax nastalgic.
February 7th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
I must take exception with Ben’s comment (6:28 pm) that “if it weren’t for the gentrification of Carroll Gardens over the last 5-10 years, the neighborhood would likely still be a ghetto that is unsafe to walk through at night.” I am one of the “old-timers,” and CG was never a ghetto. If you consider working-class neighborhoods to be ghettos, then I get the impression that you are not a native New Yorker. The homes in CG were always well-kept and neat (some of them even better maintained than now), and I would hardly equate this neighborhood with a ghetto. I went to parochial elementary school in CG and high school downtown in the 60s, probably decades before you were born. The neighborhood has almost always boasted the lowest crime rates in the city, and I never lived in fear of walking the streets at night. In fact, it was common for my family to walk to Abraham & Straus for shopping on Thursday nights when stores were open until 9:00 pm one night a week. In addition, gentrification began at least 20 years ago, not 5-10 years. As for Starbucks, I have no problem with their moving into the space on Court & President. I patronize the Starbucks on Court & Pacific, I have purchased coffee beans and D’Amico (although you must admit the store is filthy), and I also get coffee at Bagels on the Park on President and Smith. I don’t see any problem with Starbuck’s competing with these other neighborhood establishments. It’s just another shop to add to the variety. There are plenty of residents and visitors to go around and make all of these shops profitable.
February 7th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
While we are mourning the changes to the nabe, add this to the list. Just walked past JFC Paint Store on Court Street this morning…it’s closed!
Thanks Lowes and Home Depot!
February 7th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
I agree with Maria. As long as Vinny’s never goes out of business! I love that place!
February 7th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Oh my, I didn’t notice the sign @ JFC even though I passed by last night. I wouldn’t be surprised if the owner is retiring and his children are not interested in keeping the store open. It’s a shame, just the same. It was a very convenient place to buy paint, and he had a good selection.
February 7th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
I guess I’m the only one here kind of excited about the Nets stadium?
February 7th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
IN RESPONSE TO POSS: “’It’s actually fairly surprising that Starbucks or some other coffee place hasn’t moved in sooner with only the Fall Cafe for competition”….
Try Naidres on Sackett and Henry, or Aroma Bagels on Union and Henry, or F stop bagels at President and Smith, or a number of other coffee shops in the area.
Or go to the Starbucks on Court and Baltic.
I have nothing againt Starbucks myself. The nature of corporate law and obligations to shareholders that officers and directors have to maximize stock, in combination with the individual and infinite life a corporation takes on fosters a legal and economic environment that breeds the indundation of the type of cookie cutter development of services Starbucks represents in the present conversation.
It is fortunate that some of us have gotten to take part in this very rich and textured community, which as indicated by a previous person, has never been a ghetto. Rather a solidly middle class community, largely Italian, whose own children have found it impossible to find housing in the neigborhood within their affordable price range. Starbucks or not, hopefully those that wave the banner of the benefits of “gentrification” as a rationalization for corporate steralization of cultural enclaves will take a moment to pause and get their facts straight before they simply write off the people that have made the community what it is, and contributed to the desirable aspects that have drawn so many like magnets to this quaint brownstone community.
February 7th, 2006 at 7:40 pm
Agreed! Move to Windsor Terrace if you don’t want corporate shops. Heehee! I moved to Brooklyn less than a year after finishing college. Moving from the ‘burbs of Long Island (far stretch!) I wanted to live in a “neighborhood” not a cement/steele wasteland….so I chose Windsor Terrace. I had considered Carroll Gardens, but even then it was WAY out of my price range-and I still can’t afford to live over there.
For those of you who do not know, Windsor Terrace is the neighboorhood between the base of Prospect Park, starting at the Pavillion Movie Theater and runs to Greenwood Cemetary-and between 8th Ave and Ocean Pkwy entrance. It’s small, quaint, only has a main strip that consists of 4 blocks and the biggest name thing we have is Connecticut Muffin. As far as I know they have a community ordinance about allowing corporations into the ‘hood., especially when Park Slope is a few streets away, who needs them!
I Used to work at a small design firm on Atlantic b/t Hoyt and Bond, of which Downtown Atlantic restaurant now resides in the space. I saw the surrounding ‘hoods moving up and I am so surprised what a short amount of time (6 years) can do to a neighborhood.
Only thing, isn’t there already a Starbucks in Carrol Gardens on Court Street? Why else do they need another?
February 7th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
//I generally agree with the anti-gentrifcation sentiment, however, you can’t ignore the fact that these chains would not exist in our neighborhood if there was not a demand for them.//
I heartily disagree with you here. I’ve spoken to a number of small business owners in Carroll Gardens, and what’s allowing franchises to infiltrate the neighborood is certainly NOT demand. After all, aren’t the mom and pop shops (as previously mentioned: D’Amico’s, Georgia’s Place, Naidre’s, etc.VS. Starbuck’s) already meeting that demand? It comes down to rent. The reason Dunkin Donuts was able to get into CG was because they were/are willing to pay an exorbitant amount of money to do business there. They’re making landlords offers they can’t refuse. Franchises as big as Starbuck’s and DD don’t need demand. They move into neighborhoods and the market is already there for the picking.
February 7th, 2006 at 8:47 pm
As other have noted in other blogs- the family who ran Leonardo’s owns the building- they made the decision to bring in DD and make more cash. Money talk- even speaks Italian - sometimes with a sicilian accent.
February 7th, 2006 at 9:45 pm
I did some research before I left for work this morning and emailed Brooklyn Community Board 6, for our district, to find out if members of the community would have any type of voice in these matters, and here is the response I got. It seems that money talks, and there’s no thought to preservation or need or anything::
“Zoning doesn’t distinguish between chain store versus Mom and Pop businesses, they’d all fit into commercial designations. As long as the new chain store tenants comply with the existing zoning, they would not be subject to public review. Such determinations are made by the Buildings Department when they apply for permits.”
The person who sent the email is named Craig Hammerman, District Manager for Community Board 6 and he can be emailed at: districtmanager@BrooklynCB6.org
So even if people wanted to show up at the monthly board meetings to express concerns, opionions, etc, it wouldn’t matter because it’s all about who can afford the astronomical rents. I’ll admit that I was a bit depressed after receiving his email, because I thought it would be cool to go to a few meetings and talk about what the area needs versus what it doesn’t need and everything else being discussed on this blog, but there’s no point. We’re definitely not living in a place like Stars Hollow.
February 8th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
I agree with Maria, I too take exception to what Ben said about the neighborhood being a ghetto 5-10 years ago. I grew up in Carroll Gardens and lived there all my life until I was priced out. The neighborhood was never a ghetto. There was a time when Smith Street between Douglass and Atlantic was not as “clean” as it is now. There were the old school mom and pop stores like Johnny’s Bootery that were there to serve a function, not look pretty. I can remember as a teenager walking home at night along Court Street because Smith Street was a no no. I welcomed the revitalization of Smith Street. It is great to be able to walk to and from the bars and have a variety of restaurants to choose from. Unfortunately others like this too and began to move into the neighborhood creating a demand that has skyrocketed the price of rent and home sales.
February 8th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Regarding Donut House, I love that place deeply but I have never seen a donut there.
The chain stores don’t make me happy, but I can’t think of many places in Manhattan that are exempt from this change either.
February 8th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Well, if the sketch Wendy’s at Carmine and 6th in Manhattan can close down, anything can. Just don’t buy coffee from the Starbucks when it opens, if you really don’t want it there.
February 8th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
what this neighborhood needs is a record store……
February 8th, 2006 at 8:02 pm
hell yeah pf! We at 423smith have discussed this many times. Maybe something like the old Halcyon - a record store and coffee lounge. A gal can dream can’t she…
February 8th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
This is hilarious. As a former neighborhood resident who moved out of state years ago-It was not a ghetto, but a solid middle class neighborhood. Reading you people complain about gentrifying is a joke-you have met the enemy and it is you. Carroll Gardens is s gentrified as to be beyond recognition
February 9th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
To a degree Bob. I think the residents posting here - probably white, semi-affluent 30-40 somethings - understand that they moving into the neighborhood as adults definitely gentrified the area, but they’re (rightfully) extending the definition to include corporatization of the area, which they did not do, nor want.
February 9th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Concerning CB6 and getting involved…Just because the Community Board is not mandated to prevent chain stores from taking over Mom and Pop shops, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get involved. There are a lot of changes, good and bad, happening in our neighbourhood that CB6 is involved with. The Board needs volunteers to help out with urban planning, e-newsletters, grant-writing, cultural affairs, working with youth.I recommend you drop Craig another e-mail and find out ways to get involved.
February 9th, 2006 at 7:48 pm
I agree with you. Once one chair stores comes in, there’s no stopping the others and you lose the local flavor that made you want to live in Brooklyn in the first place. I always wonder why we need or frequent the chain stores when we have better options. Is the marketing that brilliant?
February 10th, 2006 at 1:51 am
“D’amico’s - hands down the best coffee in the city but also unquestionably the worst hours for any coffee shop…..ever. 10-5 Monday - Saturday? “-Poss
Poss:
I go to D’Amico’s at 7:30/8 am every morning for my coffee. They are closed Sundays but are open way way earlier than 10am every other day. Check it out.
February 14th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
I recently heard that a McDonald’s is opening in the laundromat on Court and President and the Blockbuster is closing and may become a Commerce Bank. This neighborhood is going to be overrun with pharmacies and banks!!!!
February 14th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
A mcdonalds at the bleach house? you are kidding right? oh me — oh my!
February 14th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
[…] This morning someone posted the following comment to our post regarding the Starbucks and the general corporatization and suburbanization of the nabe. I figured this deserved a bit of special attention. I recently heard that a McDonald’s is opening in the laundromat on Court and President and the Blockbuster is closing and may become a Commerce Bank. This neighborhood is going to be overrun with pharmacies and banks!!!! […]
February 14th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if McDonald’s moved in. I recently moved to this nabe from the Davis Square part of Somerville, MA (just outside Boston). That part of town underwent a transformation over the past fifteen years, in a manner very similar to what’s been going on in Carroll Gardens — a neighborhood that was mostly working class & family-oriented undergoes gentrification, starting with artists students. Then it starts to get “cool,” it gets some national press, and more restaurants & bars open up. Gradual infiltrattion by national chains follows once the neighborhood reaches critical mass. Yet all the time, there’s a solid balance of newcomers and oldtimers amongst the residents..
Surprisingly, it was McDonald’s that arrived before Starbucks. Most people were angry when they heard the announcements of each one’s arrival. Ultimately, there was nothing the neigborhood associations could do to keep them out, though. The Starbucks sits on a block with two other coffee shops in the immediate vicinity, and believe it or not, they are *all* successful. Interestingly, this was what the Starbucks spokespeople promised when they chose to open the shop. There are certainly people who are staunchly opposed to supporting Starbucks, and they take their business to the other cafes. But there’s just as many people that frequent Starbucks. Luckily, there’s enough customers around to keep the small guys in business.
The McDonald’s, however, is curiously empty most of the time. Yet it stays in business. With plenty of other cheap food options around, not many people seem to want to eat there. Yes, it is a blight on the landscape, with it obnoxiously bright lighting spilling out of the large windows and outshining the rest of the storefronts. It’s even worse late at night. It clearly doesn’t fit, it doesn’t appear to be that successful, yet it remains. I could see the same thing happening in Carroll Gardens.
February 14th, 2006 at 10:59 pm
related discussion on chowhound:
http://www.chowhound.com/boards/outer/messages/83179.html
February 27th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
The Brooklyn Paper’s February 25th editions had an article about Key Food closing and it also addresses the rumors of businesses closing in the neighborhood, here is a link to it online: http://www.brooklynpapers.com/html/issues/_vol29/29_08/29_08bp.pdf.
Hopefully the article is correct.
March 8th, 2006 at 12:46 am
late to the party (and this blog), but am down with any kind of boycott suggested here.
Would love to see some community organization in opposition of all this seemingly sudden revampment of corporate businesses taking over the neighborhood. Feel free to email.
January 30th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
In little italy cleveland we are trying to stop franchises from moving in and wonder if there is some legal action we can take to make it actually illegal for them to open businesses into our neighborhood?? I have heard that in san francisco the little italy has laws against franchises moving into their little italy area?? is this possible to have an historic district restricting such gentrification?